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Orabel Fitz Ness

Female - Bef 1203


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  • Name Orabel Fitz Ness 
    Born of Leuchars, Fife, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Female 
    Died Bef 30 Jun 1203 
    Person ID I6073  Petersen-de Lanskoy
    Last Modified 27 May 2021 

    Family Robert de Quincy,   b. Abt 1140,   d. From 1206 to 1208, of Tranent, Haddingtonshire, Scotland Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 66 years) 
    Last Modified 28 May 2021 
    Family ID F2610  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • RESEARCH_NOTES:
      1. “Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families,” Douglas Richardson (2013):
      “ROBERT DE QUINCY (or QUENCY), of Tranent, Fawside, and Longniddry, East Lothian, Scotland, Grantchester, Cambridgeshire, Long Buckby, Northamptonshire, etc., Justiciar of Lothian, c.1170-78, 2nd son, born about 1140. He married ORABEL FITZ NESS, daughter and heiress of Ness Fitz William (also known as Ness Fitz Countess), of Leuchars, Fife and Abbots Deuglie (in Arngask), Perthshire. They had one son, Saher (or Saier), Knt. [1st Earl of Winchester], and one daughter, ___. Sometime in the period, 1165-73, he witnessed a charter for William the Lion, King of Scots, by which the king confirmed the hermitage of Muswell, Buckinghamshire to Missenden Abbey. He was heir to his nephew, Saher de Quincy. Sometime before 1203 Orabel granted eight acres in Gask to Inchaffray Abbey. He and Orabel were subsequently divorced; she married (2nd) GILCHRIST, 3rd Earl of Mar, and died before 30 June 1203. Robert married (2nd) EVE ___. He accompanied King Richard I on the 3rd Crusade in 1190-1. In 1200 he and his son, Saher, witnessed a charter of Gilbert, Earl of Stratheam, and his wife, Maud d'Aubeney (Robert's niece), to Inchaffray Abbey. ROBERT DE QUINCY was living 1205-6, when he owed £20 to a Jew, Aaron, but dead in 1207-8 when his son answered that debt.
      Baker Hist. & Antiqs. of Northampton 1(1822-30): 563 (Beaumont-Quincy ped.). Notes & Oueries 4th Ser. 11 (1873): 269-271, 305-308. Cowan Royal House of Stuart 1(1908): 54-60. Lindsay et al. Charters, Bulls & other Docs. rel. to the Abbey of Inchaffray (Scottish Hist. Soc. 56) (1908): lxxxvi-lxxxix, 270. Salter Boarstall Cartulary (Oxford Hist. Soc. 1st ser. 88) (1930): 104-105. Paget (1957) 464:1-2 (Lord of Buckby; accompanied Richard I to the Holy Land, 1191; fought in Normandy 1194; great favourite with William the Lion, King of Scotland; obtained from him the Lordship of Travernent in Lothian; made justice of Lothian by William the Lion).
      Children of Robert de Quincy; by Orabel Fitz Ness:
      i. SAHER DE QUINCY, Knt., 1st Earl of Winchester [see next].
      ii. ___ DE QUINCY (daughter), married ___ DE SAINT ANDREW. They had two sons, Saher, Knt., and Roger, Knt. C
      Children of ___ de Quincy, by ___ de Saint Andrew:
      a. SAHER DE SAINT ANDREW, Knt., of East Haddon, Northamptonshire, Arrington and Hinxton, Cambridgeshire, and Gotham, Nottinghamshire, Collessie, Fife, etc. He married MAUD DE DIVE, daughter and co-heiress of William de Dive. They had two sons, Robert, Knt., and Saher (Rector of Gotham, Nottinghamshire). He and his brother, Roger, joined the baronial revolt against King John. Saher returned to the king's faith in 1217, and recovered seisin of his lands in Northamptonshire and Nottinghamshire. In 1227 his wife, Maud, sued Richard Trussel in a plea of land in Yorkshire. In 1227 Simon de Muscegros and his wife, Asceline, sued Thomas de Haddon regarding one-third interest in two virgates of land in Haddon, Northamptonshire; Saher de Saint Andrew and his wife, Maud, and Richard de Muscegros and his wife, Alice, joint tenants with the plaintiffs, were summoned and named in the writ but did not wish to sue in respect of these shares. He served in the Brittany expedition in 1230, as a knight of Margaret, Countess of Winchester. He was granted 100 shillings of land in Crokeston and Kerdington by Margaret de Quincy, Countess of Winchester. About 1250 he witnessed a charter of Richard de Harcourt, Knt., of Stanton Harcourt, Oxfordshire in favor of his son, William de Harcourt. He was one of the closest confidants of his cousin, Roger de Quincy, Earl of Winchester, witnessing 29 of the earl's surviving charters. SIR SAHER DE SAINT ANDREW was living in 1253, when he was involved in litigation regarding property at Corby, Lincolnshire. In 1260 his widow, Maud, had quittance of common summons in Cambridgeshire. Throsby Thoroton's Hist. of Nottinghamshire 1 (1790): 34-42 (Saint Andrew ped.). Dugdale Monasticon Anglicanum 4 (1823): 492 (charter of Saher de Saint Andrew to Littlemore Nunnery, Oxfordshire; charter names the grantor's "uncle" [avunculi] [Saher de Quincy] Earl of Winchester, and the grantor's son Robert de Quincy and his [Robert's] brothers [Roberti de Quinci filii mei, et fratrum suorum]), 493. Mundy Vis. of Nottingham 1569 & 1614 (H.S.P. 4) (1871): 78- 81 (St. Andrew ped). Notes & Queries 4th Ser. 11 (1873): 305-308 ("The notes of Dr. Joseph Robertson ... are confirmed by original charters of Saher, Earl of Winton ... In these, Orabelle is mentioned as Saber's mother, and Roger de St. Andrew and Seher de St. Andrew as his nephews."). Birch Cat. of Seals in the British Museum 2 (1892): 397 (seal of Maud de Saint Andrew dated c.1270-Pointed oval. In long dress, flat head-dress, in the right hand a fleur-de-lis, in the left hand a large shield of arms. Standing on a corbel. Arms: seven mascles, three, three, and one, a label of four points, ST. ANDREW. Legend: * S' MATILDIS : DE : SANCTO : ANDREA. Beaded borders.). C.P.R. 1225-1232 (1903): 358. Dowden Chartulary of the Abbey of Lindores 1195-1479 (1903): 98-99 (undated charter of Sir Serbo [recte Saher] de Saint Andrew]. MSS of the Duke of Rutland 4 (Hist. MSS Comm. 24) (1905): 9 (charter of Richard de Harcourt dated c.1250; charter witnessed by Sir Roger de Quincy, Earl of Winchester, Sir Robert de Quincy, and Sir Saher de Saint Andrew). Lindsay et al. Charters, Bulls & Other Docs. rel. the Abbey of Inchaffray (Scottish Hist. Soc. 56) (1908): 199-200, 281. Macray Coll. of Brackly Deeds at Magdalen College, Oxford (1910): 13. Leys Sandford Cartulary 1 (Oxfordshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1938): 67-68, 69-70 (confirmation charter of Saher de Saint Andrew dated c. 1236); 2 (Oxfordshire Rec. Soc. 22) (1941): 253-254. Jenkins Cal. of the Rolls of the Justices on Eyre 1227 (Buckinghamshire Arch. Soc. 6) (1945): 1, 18-19. Hatton Book of Seals (1950): 11-13, 13-14, 47-48, 288-289. Paget Baronage of England (1957): 464:2 (sub Quincy). Stringer Essays on the Nobility of Medieval Scotland (1985): 102-129. Dugdale Vis. of Nottinghamshire 1662-4 (H.S.P. n.s. 5) (1986): 19-21. Maddicott Simon de Montfort (1996): 64. Oxford, Magdalene College, Whitfield 13 (1), (2).
      b. ROGER DE SAINT ANDREW, Knt., of Littlemore, Oxfordshire, Collessie, Fife, etc. About 1210-18 he granted the Hospital at Brackley, Northamptonshire 40s. of rent from his land at Collessie, Fife in Scotland. He and his brother, Saher, joined the baronial revolt against King John and Roger was imprisoned in 1216-17. Before 1224 he was granted land at Littlemore, Oxfordshire by Margaret, Countess of Winchester. He was troubled by debts in 1227 and 1228. He served in the Brittany expedition in 1230. Before 1235 he made grants of lands in Littlemore, Oxfordshire to Garendon Abbey and Brackley Hospital. He also granted lands at Collessie, Fife to Brackley Hospital. Soon after 1235 he granted the manor of Littlemore, Oxfordshire to the Templars. SIR ROGER DE SAINT ANDREW was probably dead before 1249. Notes & Queries 4th Ser. 11 (1873): 305-308. Fourth Rpt. (Hist. MSS Comm. 3) (1874): 460. Lindsay et al. Charters, Bulls & Other Docs. Rel. the Abbey of Inchaffray (Scottish Hist. Soc. 56) (1908): 281. Les Sandford Cartulary 1 (Oxfordshire Rec. Soc. 19) (1938): 67-68, 68-69 (charter of Roger de Saint Andrew dated c. 1230), 69 (letters patent of Roger de Saint Andrew dated c.1230), 71-74. VCH 0xford 5 (1957): 208. Stringer Essays on the Nobility of Medieval Scotland (1985): 102-129.”

      2. “Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial & Medieval Families,” Douglas Richardson (2013):
      “MAUD DE SENLIS, married in 1112 ROBERT FITZ RICHARD, of Little Dunmow, Essex, Baynard's Castle, London, Cratfield, Suffolk, etc., Steward of Kings Henry I and Stephen, 5th son of Richard Fitz Gilbert, of Bienfaite and Orbec, Normandy, Clare, Suffolk, Tonbridge, Kent, by Rohese, daughter of Walter Giffard, of Long Crendon, Buckinghamshire [see CLARE 1 for his ancestry]. They had one son, Walter, and one daughter, Maud. He witnessed a number of charters of King Henry I. Sometime before 1136 he gave all his part of the water of Stour Mere, for the souls of himself and his ancestors, and for the love of his kinsman, Gerard Giffard the prior, to Stoke by Clare Priory, Suffolk. He accompanied King Stephen to York and Exeter in 1136. ROBERT FITZ RICHARD died in 1137, after 28 November, and was buried at St. Neot's Priory, Cambridgeshire. His widow, Maud, married (2nd) between 1137 and 1140 (as his 1st wife) SAHER DE QUINCY (or QUENCY), of Long Buckby, Northamptonshire and Wimpole, Cambridgeshire, and, in right of his 1st wife, of East Bradenham, Norfolk and Daventry, Northamptonshire; and, in right of his 2nd wife, of Great Childerley (in Childerley), Cambridgeshire. They had two sons, Robert and Saher, and one daughter, Alice. Sometime before 1176 Maud granted the church of East Bradenham, Norfolk to Norwich Cathedral with the consent of her son, Walter Fitz Robert. At an unknown date, with consent of Walter her son, she granted to Maurice Fitz Geoffrey all her dower lands in Essex and London, which William Fitz Walcher formerly held. He witnessed a charter of Simon son of Simon Earl of Northampton in 1153-7. His wife, Maud, was living in 1158. In 1158 he was pardoned 25s. danegeld in Northamptonshire. Sometime after 1163 he granted Sibton Abbey 20 acres of land from his demesne and 30 acres of broken heath in the village of Tuddenham, Suffolk. At an unknown date, Saher granted the canons of Dunmow, Essex a yearly rent of 10s. issuing out of the lordship of East Bradenham, Norfolk. Saher married (2nd) after 1165 ASCELINE PEVEREL, widow of Geoffrey de Waterville (occurs c.1138-61, dead in 1162), of Ailsworth and Upton (in Castor), Northamptonshire, and daughter of Robert Peverel, by his wife, Adelicia. They had no issue. She was co-heiress in 1148 to her brother, William Peverel, of Dover, by which she inherited a one-quarter share of the barony of Bourn, Cambridgeshire. Sometime between 1161 and 1172, she and her son, Ralph de Waterville, conceded to Shrewsbury Abbey a third of Crugelton and Slepe, Shropshire, as given previously by her uncle, Hamon Peverel. Sometime in the 1170s Saher confirmed William [de Belvoir] and his son, Reynold [de Oakley], in their possession of the manor of Great Childerley (in Childerley), Cambridgeshire. SAHER DE QUINCY died in 1190 (or about 1193).
      Weever Antient Funeral Monuments (1767): 388-391. Baker Hist. & Antiqs. of Northampton 1 (1822-30): 563 (Beaumont-Quincy ped.). Dugdale Monasticon Anglicanum 5 (1825): 181 (charter of Maud de Senlis to Daventry Priory, naming her deceased husband, [Robert] Fitz Richard, and her mother, Queen Maud [of Scotland]); 6(1) (1830): 147 ("[Year] 1112. Robertus filius Ricardi deponsavit Matildam de Sancto Licio quae fuit domina de Brade[n]ham"). Clutterbuck Hist. & Antiqs. of Hertford 3 (1827): 225-226 (Clare ped). Hodgson Hist. of Northumberland Pt. 2 Vol. 3 (1840): 6-8 (ped.)". Trans. British Arch. Assoc., 2nd Annual Congress (1846): 294-306. Lipscomb Hist. & Antiqs. of Buckingham 1 (1847): 200-201 (Clare ped.). Eyton Antiqs. of Shropshire 9 (1859): 62-78. Notes & Queries 4th Ser. 11(1873): 269-271, 305-308. Remarks & Colls. of Thomas Hearne 3 (Oxford Hist. Soc.) (1889): 104 (ped. chart). Birch Catalogue of Seals in the British Museum 2 (1892): 397 (seal of Maud de Senlis dated temp. Henry II.- Pointed oval. To the left. In tightly-fitting dress with long maunches, in the right hand a fleur-cle-lis. Standing. Legend wanting,). Round Feudal England (1895): 468 -479,575 (ped.). Arch. Jour. 2nd Ser. 6 (1899): 221-231. Warner & Ellis Facsimiles of Royal & Other Charters in the British Museum 1 (1903): #37 (charter of William, Count of Boulogne and [Earl] of Warenne dated 1154; charter witnessed by Saher de Quincy). Copinger Manors of Suffolk (1905): 45-46; 2 (1908): 45-53. VCH Northampton 2 (1906): 483. Lindsay et al. Charters, Bulls and other Docs. Rel. to the Abbey of Inchaffray (Scottish Hist. Soc. 56) (1908): lxxxvi-lxxxix. C.P. 5 (1926): 472, footnote f; 6 (1926): 641, footnote b. Leys Sandford Cartulary 2 (Oxfordshire Rec. Soc. 22) (1941): 280-281 (charter of Simon son of Simon Earl of Northampton dated 1153-7; charter witnessed by Saher de Quincy). Hatton Book of Seals (1950): 102-103 (charter of Maud de Senlis dated early Henry II; charter witnessed by Walter Fitz Robert and Saher [de Quincy] her sons; attached seal displays a lady standing in mantle and gown, no legend), 194-195 (charter of Saher de Quincy dated after 1163; charter witnessed his son, Saher de Quincy, and [son-in-law], Roger de Huntingfield). Paget (1957) 14:2 (daughter Maud, who retained her mother's surname, has been confused with the latter), 230:1 (he died after Easter 1136 when he was one of the witnesses to Stephen's Charter to Winchester). Sanders English Baronies (1960): 129-130. VCH Cambridge 5 (1973): 4-16, 16-25,111-120, 241-251; 6 (1978): 220-230; 8 (1982): 97-110, 127-135, 248-267; 9 (1989): 41-44, 118-120. Dodwell Charters of the Norwich Cathedral Priory 1 (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 40) (1974): 180-183 (charter dated 1176 mentions gift of the church of Bradenham, Norfolk "quarn Matilda de Silvenecti concessione filii sin Gwalteri ecclesie tue dedit et carta sua confirmauit"). Harper-Bill Stoke by Clare Cartulary 1 (Suffolk Charters 4) (1982): 115 (Gerard Giffard, Prior of Stoke by Clare, styled "kinsman" by Robert Fitz Richard before 1136). Kealey Harvesting the Air (1987): 107-131. Caenegem English Lawsuits from William Ito Richard 11 (Selden Soc. 106) (1990): 249-250. Franklin English Episcopal Acta 14: Coventry and Lichfield 1072-1159 (1997): 85-87. Raban White Book of Peterborough (2001): 250. Tanner Fams., Friends, & Allies (2004): 291 (chart), 313 (Scotland ped.), 316 (Clare ped.).
      Children of Maud de Senlis, by Robert Fitz Richard:
      i. WALTER FITZ ROBERT [see next].
      ii. MAUD DE SENLIS, married (1st) WILLIAM D'AUBENEY, of Belvoir, Leicestershire [see DAUBENEY 5]. (2nd) RICHARD DE LUVETOT, of Sheffield, Yorkshire [see DAUBENEY 5].
      Children of Maud de Senlis, by Saher de Quincy:
      i. ROBERT DE QUINCY, of Tranent, Fawside, and Longniddry, East Lothian, Scotland, Grantchester, Cambridgeshire, Long Buckby, Northamptonshire, etc., married ORABEL FITZ NESS [see QUINCY 5].
      ii. ALICE DE SENLIS, married ROGER DE HUNTINGFIELD, of Linstead and Mendham, Suffolk, Frampton, Lincolnshire, East Bradenham, Norfolk, etc. [see HUNTINGFIELD 5].”