| Notes |
- RESEARCH_NOTES:
1. The following published German source is one of the best on the Roemer family. The quote below is only a partial quote from the larger Römer entry and is provided verbatim; however, one needs to be cautioned that there are some errors. The errors for Johann Michael Römer and his descendants are discussed below. The known errors for his parent's family appears to the assigning of the surname Schütz for his mother; the errors for his grandparent's family appears to be the name of his grandfather and the make-up of the children in that family. These latter problems are analyzed and discussed in the notes of the parents and grandparents and not herein. The full Römer entry is provided in the notes of the earliest Römer in this database.
FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. The book is in German with the translation to English courtesy of Rose Green. Dates are European style (day - month - year). Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity. The oldest generation is first then descending:
[V1b] Johannes Römer, * Geisenbach 10. 1. 1678, + Birkenau 31. 8. 1731, owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings), judge in the Zent, and mayor in Birkenau after 1708; oo I. ... Katharina Schütz from Geisenbach, * ..., + ...; oo II. Birkenau 7. 2. 1725 Magdalena Eva Helferich, * ..., + ..., daughter of Georg Helferich of Abtsteinach, + ...
Children first marriage, 1 born in Geisenbach, 2-8 born in Birkenau:
1. Johann Georg, * 27. 11. 1708, + Birkenau 25. 11. 1729, unmarried.
2. Anna Elisabeth, * 22. 6. 1710, + ibid. 20. 10. 1756; oo ... 22. 1. 1726 Johannes Bernhard, * ibid. 26. 1. 1704, + ibid. 26. 1. 1779.
3. Johann Nikolaus, * 12. 9. 1712, + ibid. 18. 11. 1714.
4. Johann Jakob, * 16. 7. 1714, + ibid. 24. 7. 1714.
5. Johann Michael, * 3. 9. 1715, [s. VIIc, American branch]
6. Anna Katharina, * 20. 11. 1717, + ...
7. Eva Katharina, * 13. 10. 1720, + ibid. 19. 5. 1770; oo ... 18. 7. 1736 Anton Hartwig, * ... 1713, + Birkenau 23. 2. 1772.
8. Anna Christine, * ... 1723, + ... 1. 3. 1778; oo Birkenau 20. 1. 1739 Leonhard Schaab, * Birkenau 17. 2. 1712, + ibid. 22. 3. 1762.
Son of second marriage, born in Birkenau:
9. Johann Philipp, * Birkenau 29. 4. 1731, + ..."
2. The following are some comments on the above from researcher Rose Green concerning the marriages of Johannes Roemer. Some of the comments are redundant, but they are all helpful.
A. "I can see why the Geschlechterbuch says that Catharina's name must be Schütz. The godfather of her son Johann Nikolaus (b. 12 Sep 1712) was "Joh. Nicolaus Schuetz, of Geisenbach, the father's brother-in-law." And the godfather of Johann Michael (b. 3 Sep 1715) was "Hanss Michael Schütz, the son of Hanss Nicol Schützof Geisenbach." Great! you say. The wife was Schütz. Not so fast. When you look at Johannes's siblings, you will see that Johann Nicolaus Schütz is the husband of Johannes Roemer's sister Margaretha.. It is of course possible for two siblings from one family to marry two siblings from another (Johann Michael Roemer and his sister Eva Katharina did just that -- J. Michael married Charlotta Amalia Hartwich, and Eva Katharina married Charlotta's brother Anton Joachim Hartwich). However, there is no record of that in the case of Roemer-Schütz. The second thing is that Catharina (wife of Johannes Roemer) was Catholic. There is no record in the Lutheran church books of this marriage, and the Catholic church book coverage of that time period is very spotty. (It was a Lutheran area into which some Catholics immigrated after the 30 Years' War, and they were definitely the minority.) His second wife, Magdalena Eva Helferich, was Catholic as well -- but their marriage is in the Lutheran book. So without some kind of documentation, there's really no way to know what her name was. Yes, it's possible she was Schütz. But it's 100% equally possible that her name was any other name occurring in the area. (And no, her death record gives no information -- not her maiden name, not her age, not where she came from, if she moved in -- nothing. It's very aggravating.)"
B. "I personally searched the marriage records in all available parishes in the Birkenau environs, both Lutheran and Catholic, and was not able to find a marriage record for Johannes and Catharina Roemer, or indeed, any record stating her maiden name at all. Even her death record (Catholic, despite Johannes and children being baptized Lutheran) merely calls her the wife of Johannes Roemer. Until a primary source document is found such as her marriage record to Johannes, all we have is conjecture."
C. "I can't remember if I looked for their marriage in Weinheim. They would have been in the Abtsteinach parish for Catholics (if they married in a Catholic parish), but I did not find them there. Nor did I find them in Moerlenbach. However, there were Catholics in Weinheim and Viernheim, and I don't recall if I looked there. So those are some thoughts."
3. Rose Green per email of 26 Apr 2015 :
"Yes, I read original German records. My husband is a German professor and we lived in Germany for a number of years, so I learned German. When I was working on the Roemers (the Hessisches Geschlechterbuch missed a couple of Johannes and Catharina's kids -- I found them in the Catholic records and added them to Familysearch), I ran into a guy who was born in Birkenau. He isn't blood related to us, but a number of his family members married a number of ours, so we had common interests. He picked up a number of historical booklets for me from the city that had articles about our family in them. Yes, I could get the bare bones out of the church records, but it was so interesting to read about these people. Apparently Johannes was a tanner and also owned a mill (which is still there). He was quite well-respected (a ton of people came to his funeral) and he had the mixed-religion marriage. When issues came up later in town with mixed-religion marriages, he was sort of held up as a standard of, well, he managed to do it, so it must be possible.
Schooling was compulsory from 1705? Joh. Michael Roemer who came to America was quite literate -- his signature on his will is in lovely, perfect, German script.
Joh. Michael and his wife Charlotta Amalia Hartwich were apparently the first people from Birkenau to emigrate to America ... They started the Evangelische (Lutheran) church in Frederick, MD and Michael's name is on a plaque there."
4. Rose Green per email of 18 May 2015. Reference is made in other notes with the Hartwig family concerning Carlebachmuele. The following is addtional information on the mill Johannes Roemer owned in the hilly region of the Odenwald:
"The Carlebach mill is not the same as the mill the Roemers owned. That was the Donels or Nikolai Mill. The tanner Johannes Roemer acquired it in 1706 with the intent to put a Lohmuhle on it (and I have no idea what that is -- but I think it has something to do with mills and tanning. Not knowing anything about either one, I can read definitions of it, but I still don't really know what it is. The wiki article in German says it does something with bits of wood. Maybe some kind of sawmill, but what does that have to do with tanning? Plus, they still had to pay 1.5 bushels of grain in tax on it every year.) The Roemers kept it until 1740, and after that, it was run by our friend Anton Hartwich and Hans Michael Nikolai (not such a stretch, since Anton married into the Roemers). In 1791 the mill went to the Kadel family due to a marriage.
In modern times it was owned by "Firma Frank" (the Frank company). It sits at the bottom of a very steep ravine, sort of on the main road, on the dividing line between Birkenau and Weinheim. There was no place to pull off to take a picture, though. But maybe it's visible on google street view? Both mills were there in 2002.
As of this date, the following is a weblink to the mill http://www.carlebachmuehle.de/
5. Some biographical information provided by family researcher Rose Green: "Johannes Römer shows up in Birkenau around 1706 or so. He agreed to take charge of a mill that had fallen into disrepair. He had three tax-free years to fix it up before having to pay taxes. (Source: 1200 Jahre Birkenau) He also shows up on a treasury record in 1706 (Schatzungsregister) as Römer, Hans. (Source: Staatsarchiv Darmstadt, G 31C, Konv. 72/3, as found in Einwohnerlisten der Zent Birkenau 1439-1841, by Rudolf Kunz and Karl-Ludwig Schmitt, published in 1988). Johannes (Hans) Römer is also on the 1721 list swearing allegiance to the new lord, the Freiherr Franz Philipp Kaspar Wambolt."
6. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father:
A. Published German Sources:
a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity:
[Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach:
1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685.
2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ...
3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ...
4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb]
5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch]
6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ...
7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ...
8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach.
9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ...
b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994:
- 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.)
- Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†]
- Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695]
- Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach.
- Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath.
- Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis.
- Eva, *7.2.1685
- Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687
B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person."
a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children:
- Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain:
1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau).
2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle).
3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read).
4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach.
5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.]
- Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB:
6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.)
7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above.
8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7.
9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer.
10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book.
b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such:
1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good).
2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.)
3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic.
4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct.
5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach.
6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct.
7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach.
C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage:
a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need."
b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna."
c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children.
d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy:
i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name.
ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions.
iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was.
iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about.
e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]:
". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach:
1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown
2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown
3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa"
D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals."
|
Chris & Julie Petersen's Genealogy
1678 - 1731 (53 years)