Chris & Julie Petersen's Genealogy

Anna Barbara Stähli

Female 1669 -


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  • Name Anna Barbara Stähli 
    Christened 19 Sep 1669  Retschwiller, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Female 
    Person ID I5675  Petersen-de Lanskoy
    Last Modified 27 May 2021 

    Father Hanss Stähle,   b. Abt 1635, of Retschwiller, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Mother Mrs. Hanss Stähle,   b. Abt 1637, of Soultz-sous-Forêts, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married Abt 1658  of Soultz-sous-Forêts, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Family ID F2204  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • RESEARCH_NOTES:
      1. Price and Associates, Inc., (c) Research Report, prepared for Noel Stoker and used by his permission. Report dated 4 September 2017. File name: Staehli2017August / 1333. A transcript of the report:
      “OBJECTIVE
      • Verify and extent-the ancestry of Eva Staehli
      • Discuss the "Antoine Merkel" info
      • Look into the Gundershofen parish records for the Staehli ancestry
      RESULTS
      • The christening entry for Johannes Stiihle (born in 1659) could not be found. However, it is tentatively proposed he was the son of Hans Stahli of Rischweiler of Sulz underm Wald (Soultz-sous-Forets).
      • Research was made in the Gundershofen parish and this topic was discussed • Also discussed was the "Antoine Merkel" info.
      • Temple work has been submitted for all those with Staehli and related names found during this project.
      RECOMMENDATIONS
      • carefully extract ALL Stahle/Staehli/Stell/Stelle as well as Straub entries at Soutz-sous Forets to assure all possible direct-line as well as related families have been identified. In 2015, only the direct-line Staehli family was provided even though there was at least one other non-related Hans Stahle/Eva family during the same time period. This research should include death records as well as descendancy that might be revealed in baptismal sponsors. (This was recommended in Staehli20l 5May report).
      • Examine the earlier records of Schwabwiller for the Straub family as per recommendation in Staehli2015May report.
      • Search additional parishes. Because the proposed ancestry for Johannes Stahle is proposed rather than proven, further research amongst the parishes located between Gundershofen and Sulz unterm Wald could be completed. However, as with the parishes already considered during this project, many/most of the records likely do not start until after 1659.
      • Consider research in the Swiss records of Basel and Brienz for any ancestral Stable entries although this is not a likely place of origin for Johannes considering a more likely extension found during this project. Basel is not only a city but also a canton; the canton includes only the city Basel. For both locations, microfilmed parish records are available in Salt Lake City.
      Heading
      There were three tasks to fulfill within this research project. The first task was to verify and extend back the ancestry of Eva Staehli (wife of HanB Michael Stocker). The parents of Eva Staehli were Johannes Stahle and Eva, nee Straub. While the Straub line has been already researched farther, the Stable line was not. Johannes Stable was born about 7 March 1659 probably in or near Soultz-Sous-Forets (town name in German: Sulz unterm Wald), Alsace, today in France. The Lutheran parish records are available for research on microfilm.
      The second task was to review and discuss the "Antoine Merkel" info, which shows Staehle families residing in Retschwiller (in German: Retschweiler, in France) and Stell families in Bale (in Gelman: Basel, in Switzerland).
      The third task was to consider Gundershoffen as a possible town of origin for the Johannes Stale family.
      This report will discuss all three tasks, but it will be done in descending order. In this report the German town names will be used since the records that need to be searched are issued in German and the gazetteer used was also in German.
      Report
      Gundershoffen (in German: Gundershofen) is located in the same geographical area as Sulz untenn Wald. There are about 12 miles between these two towns. The migration of 12 miles in the mid-1600s is not impossible. In fact, starting in about 1650, many families moved into southern Germany, into areas that were depopulated through the 30-Years-War (1618-1648). Especially in the Palatinate, an area which is north-east of Alsace, in some villages not one soul was left living. Other villages in the wider area lost up to 75% of its inhabitants. So it would be easy to assume that the Stable family moved from even further away.
      For the Lutheran parish Gundershofen the church records available start in 1682. Those records are too recent for research for the Johannes Stahle christening entry. For the neighboring Mietesheim Lutheran parish the records start in 1655, or four years prior to the calculated birth of Johannes Stahle. For Bad Niederbrunnen the Lutheran records start in 1658, Engweiler in 1668. The parish with the oldest Lutheran records was in Oberbronn. They start in 1598. Across the county border there was also one parish with early records available. It is within 3 miles from Gundershofen and half way between Gundershofen and Sulz unterm Wald. The neighboring Morsbronn, Fröschweiler, and Langensulzbach parishes start much later. In summary, if the records in or near Sulz am Wald do not lead to success, the Gundershofen area would be the second choice for research. If not found there, the parishes between these two towns should be examined, including those listed above.
      The "Antoine Merkel" info includes two towns of possible origin for the Stahle family: Retschweiler in Alsace and Basel in Switzerland. Retschweiler is a very good candidate since it is located within the Lutheran parish Sulz unterm Wald. Those records start in 1595. The records of all but one of the neighboring parishes start many years after the birth of Johannes Stahle. The one exception is the parish Birlenbach, where the Lutheran records start in 1614.
      The other town mentioned in the "Antoine Merkel" info was Basel in Switzerland. Eva, the daughter of Johannes Stahle had her name recorded as Stahli. The ending -li is very common for families originating in Switzerland. Historians estimate that between 1650 and 1720 about 10,000 Swiss settlers came into the German territories. Here is the historical downside: (1) Those coming to Germany were mostly Calvinists, and not so much Lutherans. (2) Most Swiss settlers settled into the northern part of Baden (around Heidelberg and Kraichgau), the Palatinate, and Brandenburg. There are no numbers known for those that might have settled in Alsace. (3) Basel was the Canton that sent the 2nd least number of Swiss settlers into the German territories. The Cantons Zurich and Bern sent the most families. This means that it is theoretically possible that Johannes Stähle/Stähle could have come from the Basel area, but the chances are rather small. If he was born in Switzerland, he very likely came from another Canton and not from Basel.
      Now to the first task, the parish records in or near Sulz unterm Wald. There is a printed extract made from the Lutheran parish records (christenings and marriages only) for Sulz unterm Wald, covering the years from 1595 to 1793, and an extract from the civil records (birth and marriages only), from 1793 to 1862. (Book: Soultz-sous-Forets: registres paroissiaux protestants, baptemes, marages (1595-1793); etat civil, naissances, mariages (1793-1862), call #: 944.3853/S7 K29s.) These printed records include the town Retschweiler. These records were checked for any Stable (or similar) entries, especially in hope to find any towns of origin mentioned there. Only a few Staehli christenings surfaced (probably originally spelled Stähli, since the French do not have the Umlaut letter "ä"). The oldest entries were from 1793, the most recent in 1844. As far as those names don't have temple work done yet, it was now prepared. The christening/birth records in this publication had many gaps. Therefore it was decided to check the original christening records of the 1650s and 1660s. It was discovered that the christenings went up to 1655 and then a gap until 1664. Since the ancestor Johannes Stähle was born in or around 1659 (calculated based on his death entry), his christening entry cannot be found in these records. In the pre-1655 christenings, which were very hard to decipher, no Stähle (or similar spelling) entries could be found. Because the majority of those records was barely legible there is the chance that those entries could have been missed. In the post-1664 christenings four entries were found as follows. (Lutheran Church Sulz unterm Wald, christenings, 1639-1655, 1664-1673; LDS-microfilm 796,890.)
      Birth Register. Source: Lutheran Church Records of Sulz unterm Wald; (Born/Christened -- Child's Name -- Father's Name -- Mother's Name -- Page and entry #):
      b. 19 Sep 1669 -- Anna Barbara Stahli -- HanB Stahli of Ritschweiler -- [not stated] -- No page #, entry xxv
      chr. 18 Jun 1664 -- Anna Catharina Stahl -- Peter Stahl of Birlenbach -- Anna Catharina [no maiden name stated]
      chr. 9 Nov 1667 -- HanB Martin Stahl -- Peter Stahl of Birlenbach -- Anna Catharina [no maiden name stated]
      chr. 12 Feb 1671 -- Anna Maria Staahl -- Peter Stahl of Birlenbach -- Anna Catharina [no maiden name stated]
      If it could be assumed that one (or more) of these children listed is a sibling of Johannes Stahle, then it is very likely Anna Barbara, born in 1669. Indeed, the father, Hans Stahli, resided specifically at Ritschweiler. Th[is] was notably the precise residence of the ancestral Johannes Stähle in the early 1700's, indicating a likely familial connection. The previous 2015 report suggested that the ancestral Johannes Stähle was NOT from Soultz- Sous-Forets because of one unfilled entry stating "of ___.” However, it is possible the clerk later learned Johannes was actually born in the parish or was going to simply add a local residence.
      The other family in the above chart was from Birlenbach, which is actually another parish, Eva Straub, Johannes Stähle's wife, was born at Keffenach within the parish of Birlenbach. As such, it is possible that Johannes was the son of Peter Stahl. However, Johannes did not name a son Peter as would be expected.
      There was found another set of parish records for Sulz unterm Wald, labeled in French as "Registres paroissiaux", or in English: parish registers. No year was stated in the FamilySearch catalog. An examination of this record set showed that all those entries are from the 18th century and with that too young for being useful for the Stähle ancestry.
      Since it cannot be. 1:00% proven if the ancestral Stähle/Stähli family was from Sulz unterm Wald, the neighboring parishes were checked, at least as far as records were available for 1659 or earlier. The parish north of Sulz unterm Wald is called Birlenbach. This is the parish where three of the christenings listed above actually belonged to. For this parish three different sets of registers could be checked. The first set contains the regular christening entries. The entries are available from 1616 to 1635, one entry for 1664, and then again starting in 1667 until the 20th century. This also means that the
      ' Lutheran Church Sulz unterm Wald, Registres paroissiaux; LDS-microfilm 796,895 item 2-6 Lutheran Church Birlenbach, christenings, 1616-1635, 1664, 1667-1673; LDS-microfilm 721,154. Family Names 1618-1648 (30-Years-War); Family Name Index for christenings, marriages, and deaths, 1614-1787); LDS-microfilm 1,761,549 item 3
      desired year 1659 is not available for research. Checked were all entries between 1630 and 1635, the one in 1664, and the records for 1667 to 1673. No Stahl or Stähli (or any other spelling variation) could be found there.
      The second set of records is a listing of family names who were living within the parish borders during the 30-Years-War. No entry related to Stahl or Stähli (or similar) could be found there.
      The third set of records is a family name index for christenings, marriages, and deaths for the time between 1614 and 1787. Found were the three Stahl entries between 1664 and 1671 listed above, children of Peter Stahl, and several christenings born after 1706. No christening entries could be found between 1671 and 1706. The Birlenbach parish records also include the town Keffenach, which was the town of origin of the related Straub family, as mentioned in a previous report.
      The Lutheran Oberbetschdorf parish (Lutheran Church Oberbetschdorf, christenings, 1665-1675; LDS-microfilm 765,651), located south of Sulz unterm Wald, has records that start in 1665, or six years after the birth of Johannes Stähle. Nevertheless, the christening entries for 1665 to 1672 were checked if Stähle (or similar) families lived there. No such entries could be found.
      It is a similar situation with the Lutheran parish Rittershofen, which borders the Sulz unterm Wald parish in the south-east direction. (Lutheran Church Rittershofen christenings, 1664-1667, 1673-1731; LDS-microfilm 767,897) Again, the parish records start in 1664. The christenings between 1664 and 1667 were checked without finding any Stähle (or similar) family name. The records for the years 1668 to 1672 are missing.
      All other parishes nearby start their records much later than 1659.
      The town Gundershofen was cited as a possible candidate for the town of birth of Johannes Stahle. A book for Gundershofen exists containing the marriages, but the book as well as the original parish entries do not start until 1682. (Book: Gundershoffen: registres paroissiaux protestants, tables des mariages (1682-1789, 1791); call #: 944.3835/G8 K22k) The book was still checked for any appearance of the ancestral family name. Since the book is in French, the findings are spelled Staehli. Marriages were performed between 1702 and 1757 for Staehlis. Only one town of origin was mentioned there for an entry in 1702, the town Brintz in Switzerland. While today Brintz is a specific type of Swiss cheese, the town very likely refers to present-day Brienz (Canton Bern). In addition to the book, research in the original christening records of Gundershofen was done (Lutheran Church Gundershoffen, christenings, 1682-1735; LDS-microfilm 753,734 item 1), but no Stable entries were found in the first decade after 1682.
      In a previous report Lembach was mentioned as a possibility. There is a town lineage book for Lembach, which also includes Wingen and Climbach. (Book: Lembach, Wingen, Climbach, (Alsace 1500-1725 families); call #: 944.3835 D2p) The first entries are from the year 1500, the last entries are from 1725. No ancestral name could be found in those records.
      This was all the research performed during this project.
      Conclusion
      The parish records of Sulz unterm Wald (Soultz-Sous-Forets) and several surrounding parishes were checked without finding the christening entry of Johannes Stähle. Since christening records are missing for the years when this ancestor was born, there is the chance that he will be never found with the records available at this time. Nevertheless, based on the available entries beginning in 1664, it is tentatively proposed Johannes Stable was the son of Hans Stahli of Ritschweiler. This was also Johannes' precise residence in the early 1700's.
      Other places were searched, including the parish of Gundershofen, as well as the town Lembach. There was no time left to do a thorough search in the parishes located between Gundershofen and Sulz untenn Wald. In addition, research in the Swiss records of Basel and Brienz could be conducted in the future if the client desires to check those possibilities.
      All the names extracted were entered into a PAF-file and prepared for temple work, as far as this was not performed yet.
      RESEARCH CALENDAR
      Ancestor: Johannes Stale (born 1659). Place: Sulz unterm Wald and some other parishes in this geographical area of Alsace.
      Researcher Milan Pohontsch, AG; Date: 5 September 2017
      -Book, call #: 944.3853/S7 K29s: Soultz-sous-Forets: registres paroissiaux protestants, baptemes, mariages (1595-1793); etat civil, naissances, manages (1793-1862). Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -LDS-microfilm 796,890 and 796,895 item 2-6: Lutheran parish Sulz unterm Wald, Alsace, France. Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -LDS-microfilm 721,154 and 1,761,549 item 3: Lutheran parish Birlenbach, Alsace, France. Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -LDS-microfilms 765,651: Lutheran parish Oberbetschdorf, Alsace, France. Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -LDS-microfilm 767,897: Lutheran parish Rittershofen, Alsace, France. Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -Book, call #: 944.38351G8 K22k: Gundershoffen: registres paroissiaux protestants, tables des mariages (1682-1789, 1791). Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -LDS-microfilm 753,734 item 1: Lutheran parish Gundershofen, Alsace, France. Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.
      -Book, call #: 944.3835 D2p: Lemback, Wingen, Climbach, (Alsace 1500-1725 families). Searched for any Stähle entries, with focus on Johannes Stähle (born 1659). Ancestor not found.”