Chris & Julie Petersen's Genealogy

Elias or Eliahu Jossel Herzenberg

Male 1823 - 1851  (28 years)


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  • Name Elias or Eliahu Jossel Herzenberg 
    Born 1823  of Pilten (Piltene), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Male 
    Died 1851  Pilten (Piltene), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Person ID I3959  Petersen-de Lanskoy
    Last Modified 27 May 2021 

    Father Elias or Eliahu Herzenberg,   b. Abt 1804, Ventspils (Windau), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1888, Pilten (Piltene), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 84 years) 
    Mother Blume Brenner,   b. From 1801 to 1805, of Pilten (Piltene), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 1898/9, Pilten (Piltene), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 98 years) 
    Family ID F1630  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Riffke,   b. , , Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married Bef 1850  of Pilten (Piltene), Courland, Latvia Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Last Modified 28 May 2021 
    Family ID F1898  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • RESEARCH_NOTES:
      1. The Latvian Archives is online and I have reviewed all Registers for Pilten. Registers are in German and I indicate what I don't understand. I extracted all Herzenbergs of which the following excerpts apply to this family:
      "<http://www.lvva-raduraksti.lv/en/menu/lv/13/ig/13/ie/5507/book/30316.html>
      -Image 19. Has two columns of ages after the male names with the first being 1834 and the second 1842; one column for female names probably 1842; presumably if missing in the second male column then probably deceased in the interim. Family #43:
      -44 Elias Lemchen Herzenberg, 30, 38
      -his wife Blume, 37
      -45 his son Israel, 14, 22
      -46 his son Jossel, 11, 19 [Comment needing translation for either Jossel, Naphthal, or both; something with 1840.]
      -47 his son Naphthal, 7, 15
      -48 his son Joel, 4-1/2, - [Translation very uncertain but appears comment says he died in 1834 at age 4-1/2.]
      -Image 74. Has two columns of ages after the name with the first being 1834 and the second 1848; presumably if missing in the second column then probably deceased in the interim. List # 39, Family #13:
      -44 Elias Lemchen Herzenberg, 30, 44 [Comment needing translation, has something with 1840.]
      -his wife Blume
      -45 his son Israel, 14, 28
      -46 his son Jossel, 11, 25
      -47 his son Naphthal, 7, 21
      -48 his son Joel, 4-1/2, - [Translation very uncertain but appears comment says he died in 1834.]
      -Image 144. Has two columns of ages after the name with the first being 1850 and the second 1854; presumably if missing in the second column then probably deceased in the interim. I believe the Archives indicates they had a 1851 revision list, which may be what they call the first column; however, it appears more like 1850 in reality age-wise. List # 23, Family #40:
      -171 Elias Lemchen Herzenberg, 46, 50 [Has comment needing translation with dates 1840 and 1854.]
      -his wife Blume
      -172 son Israel, 30, 34
      -his wife Leye
      -173 his son Abraham, 14-1/2, 18-1/2
      -174 his son Levin, 2, 6
      -175 son Jossel, 27, - , Jossel died in 1851
      -his wife Riffke
      -176 son Naphthal, 23, 27
      -177 son Hosias, 16, 20
      -178 son Abraham, 10, 14
      -Image 205. Has two columns of ages after the name with the first being 1858 and the second 1871; presumably if missing in the second column then probably deceased in the interim. There are several comments with this family requiring translation; however, Feigmanis offered a translation in his 1997 report to Harold Hodesas follows: "…mentioned that for this family somebody was take[n] in army; as well in 1854 some Jew without passport go in army." He comments: "Because conditions of military service were very difficult and 25 years long…, rich Jews try to find some poor Jew or Christian [to] go in the army for them. Also "no passport" Jews might be [caught] and given [to] the army." List #1, Family #11:
      -50 Elias Lämmchen Herzenberg, 54, 67
      -his wife Blume
      -51 his son Israel, 37-1/2, 50
      -52 his son Abraham, 22-1/2, 35-1/2
      -53 his son Levin, 10, 23
      -54 his son Joel, 6, 19
      -55 his son Jossel, 4, 17.
      -56 son Naphthaly, 31, 44
      -his wife Nesse
      -57 his son Lämme, 1-1/2, 14-1/2
      -58 son Hosias, 24, 37
      -59 son Abraham, 18, 31
      -Family 91, 372 [Cukal?] Marcus Bär, 8, 21 [Note: This is the individual showing up in Ancestry.com as Marcus Herzenberg, b. 1850, son of Bär. From this context of this entry, he is not a Herzenberg and evidently a lodger or something. Bär appears to be used as a last name in this entry.]

      2. Peter Herzenberg in his compilation had linked this individual (4.06) as a son to Joseph and Zippe Herzenberg (3.03a). I hired the Latvian Archives (Report no. Nr. 3-P-272, 2816, 1927 N, dated 28 Feb 2011) to do research on Joseph and Zippe Herzenberg's family and there is no report of this individual as a son - nor have I seen him show up in other secondary sources with this family. In digging further, I believe Peter may have missed a note on page 2 of the Feigmanis report, which quotes from the 1854 Pilten revison list (630-2-393) and gives the correct family. In Peter's compilation, he would then be a child in family 3.05a with the correction. The placement of Elias Jossel as a son of Elias Lemchen and Blume Herzenberg is also confirmed by the other revision lists quoted above, which show him as Jossel. Feigmanis' transcript:
      Elias Lemchen Herzenberg, 50.
      wife Blume,
      son Israel 34
      wife Leje
      son Abraham, 18-1/2
      Levin 6
      son Elias Jossel - 27 in 1850, died in 1851.
      his wife Rivke
      son Naphtal -27
      Hosias-20
      Abraham-14
      In Peter's compilation, he gives the rational that led him to place Elias Jossel in the wrong family. This is from a copy captured of Peter Bruce Herzenberg's website of London, England, since relocated to South Africa (website is no longer functioning as of 7 Aug 2007). Source quoted for this individual is FA for Aleksandrs Feigmanis (Latvian researcher hired by Harold Hodes). He notes:
      Name variations: Elias Jossel
      FA 002 shows b. 1823, d. 1851 in Piltene, md. Rivke.
      Peter also notes: Elias Jossel - Elias H. presents a problem as he is not recorded in Robert Herzenberg's Reminiscences. Since Fiegmanis provides exact details for both birth and death dates which cannot be ignored, these dates and his names suggest he was the son of Joseph. The fact Elias H. is not mentioned in Robert Herzenberg's Reminisences might be explained as a result of his early demise (aged 28), and Robert's admission that his generation was at best sketchy. Len Yodaiken has not been able to place him based on extrpolation, and hence the absence in his records. Admittingly, a 33 year gap exists between himself and Eduard, so his father would have been in his early 50s at the time of his birth. Not improbable, but still a tenuous link.
      Based on more modern research as I have explained above, we now properly place him as a son of Elias and Blume Herzenberg. I suspect that his correct name was probably Jossel Elias and not Elias Jossel, which makes all the difference in correcting family.

      SOURCES_MISC:
      1. Leonardo Herzenberg http://www.herzenberg.net/