Maria Barbara Gross

Female 1724 -


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  • Name Maria Barbara Gross 
    Christened 15 Oct 1724  Evangelisch-Reformierte, Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Female 
    Person ID I2685  Petersen-de Lanskoy
    Last Modified 4 May 2015 

    Father Hans Peter Gross,   b. Abt 1689, of Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 29 Apr 1735, Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 46 years) 
    Mother Elisabeth Meyer,   b. 1683, Wiesen, Pfalz, Bavaria or Reisen, Birkenau, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 19 Feb 1730, Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 47 years) 
    Married 24 Nov 1716  Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Family ID F253  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Johan George Schwitzgaebel,   b. Abt 1700, of Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married 14 Sep 1745  Evangelisch-Reformierte, Altrip, Rhein-Pfaltz-Kreis, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Last Modified 22 Oct 2015 
    Family ID F1623  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • RESEARCH_NOTES:
      1. Emails from Rose Green, descendant and expert German researcher (rose.green@att.net):
      29 Apr 2015: "Given that we've been talking about Birkenau and all [in regards to Johan Michael Roemer], I went back to look at exactly who it is of Conrad Dick's ancestors who lived in that parish. A while back, I found a discussion on a site about Brethren genealogy [see separate note in file of Johann Conrad Dick from Dwayne Wrightsman dated 30 Aug 2009], in which he was identified as a member of that group, and traced to Heddesheim, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany. His mother was from nearby Altrip and his father from Heddesheim. I discovered that there were printed Familienbuecher (genealogy books where someone has extracted the whole of a town's church records and organized them into neat family groups) for both villages. I ordered them via interlibrary loan, and yes, the whole family showed up. Conrad's mother was from Weschnitz (not in the Pfalz but over near Birkenau), and his grandparents were married in Furth (the Catholic parish that covered Birkenau at the time). (The grandparents were the ones moving up after the 30 Years' War from parts south.)
      The Altrip records list a marriage for Johann Conrad Dick on 22 Feb 1746 to Anna Catharina, widow of Hans Jacob Baargeld (marriage 15 Nov 1735, which gives her maiden name as Gross, daughter of Hans Peter Gross and Anna Meyer). Altrip and Heddesheim are very near Mannheim (he named his farm Mon Hime in America). The new location, Berghuelen, Blaubeuren, Wuerttemberg, is quite a bit further away. The Altrip records also apparently include the birth record of Maria Elisabeth Dick, who would be the wife of Peter Eller, if this group is ours, on 14 Dec 1746. This was in the Reformed church. The Gross family goes back several generations (some of the children don't show up in Familysearch; it's more of a direct line thing).
      ...To me, the Altrip/Heddesheim connection seems to carry more weight than the Berghuelen one (if nothing else because of the Mannheim connection--but also because all of the people seem to show up there)."
      2 May 2015: "Yes, I suspect that with the conversion to newer versions of Familysearch, some records have become garbled or incorrectly merged. You are right--all the background details list the name in FS as Anna Maria. And suddenly, she's bam! Ruth, out of nowhere. The Altrip Familenbuch does not list anyone in the Gross family named Ruth. It's not a name that commonly appears in German church records of the time. The siblings of Anna Catharina Gross that are recorded in the Altrip book all have specific death dates in Germany listed. Possibly there were more siblings who died young and would be in the original church records, but I'm not seeing anyone who could be remotely construed as Ruth.
      Hannah sounds more English than German to me (Anna in German--unless maybe a nickname for Johanna?), but her husband--he's definitely got a German name, and he's living with all those Germans. The Heddesheim Familienbuch does list a sister to Conrad, Anna Maria, b. 1726. I don't see a Hannah Sophia, but it would be worth checking the actual primary church records in Altrip. Such published books have errors, as we know. I think it's worth putting her down as a hypothesis to be tested.
      Regarding Margaret Susan Dick who married Koons, I can't tell from the information given if Dick was her maiden name, or if it was the name of her first husband who died while coming to America. Again, I don't see anyone by that name in the Familienbuch, but Conrad has some brothers who don't have death entries listed. There are certainly other Dick families in the US that don't have any apparent relation to us (Adam Dick--unless way back we have a DNA connection??). But since they all(Koons, etc.) seem to follow each other around, she's probably another one to look into.
      In any case, there is a concrete marriage record for a Johann Conrad Dick marrying Anna Catharina Gross on 22 Feb 1746 in Altrip, Pfalz, Germany. The birth of a daughter, Maria Elisabetha Dick, who we suppose to be the one who married Peter Eller, was born in Altrip on 14 Dec 1746.
      I suspect that a lot of incorrect merging (and some assumptions based on extracted records taken out of context) have happened in recent years. I have certainly seen several instances of people in Family Tree suddenly being connected to people they have no relation to, just because of a name similarity (and the new situation replacing the previous relationship that was based on detailed research and tangible data). Sometimes it seems like we've gone from the problem of temple work being done over and over for the same individual to some rather overzealous merging. I'm sure we'll get it all straightened out in the end, but it makes for confusion right now.
      In any case, here's a summary of what the Familienbuch Heddesheim has to say about Conrad Dick:
      Johann Velten (Valentin) Dick (son of Hans Velten Dick, +7 Mar 1735 Heddesheim) oo Anna Margaretha Hinderkircher (b. in the 1690s in Weschnitz, which is near Birkenau, +7 Mar 1742 Heddesheim) on 16 Feb 1718 in Heddesheim. She was the daughter of Johann Joachim HInderkircher, married in Furth (again, near Birkenau) but from "Tirol," and Susanna Baltzer of Schwaben. Children (born in Heddesheim):
      1. Johann Conrad, *3 Feb 1721
      2. Justina Magdalena *5 May 1724, +19 Dec 1762 in Heddesheim
      3. Johann Christoph, *28 Jul 1725
      4. Anna Maria, *28 Dec 1726
      5. Tobias, *8 Feb 1729
      6. Johann Michael, *22 Mar 1731
      Extra children not listed could of course be fit in here, and a search should be done of the church books. After Velten died, Anna Margaretha married a widower in the area, but I don't have a record of any children (not to say there weren't any).
      On the Gross side (from the Altrip Familienbuch), I've got Hans Peter Gross of Altrip, no birth info given, but believed to be the son of Johann Ludwig Gross and Catharina of Altrip (md. bef 1692) m. Elisabeth Meyer of Reisen (Birkenau parish again! Her father was Hans Meyer) on 24 Nov 1716 in Altrip. Children born in Altrip:
      1. Anna Catharina, 22 Aug 1717
      2. Johann Heinrich, *16 Feb 1721, +11 Jun 1722
      3. Maria Barbara, *15 Oct 1724, +15 Jun 1762 Altrip. Married Johann Georg Schwitzgöbel of Weisenheim, Sand, Germany 14 Sep 1745 in Altrip
      Then Hans Peter Gross married again, this time on 9 May 1730 (Altrip) to Anna Clara Schneider, *25 Sep 1711 Altrip. They had one child that I know of in Altrip:
      4. Johann Ludwig Gross, *5 Oct 1732, +25 Apr 1735
      Anyway, I think that it might be a very good idea to poke into this some more ... I think I'll order up what records there may be for Altrip and Heddesheim. And I'd love to take another look in the Birkenau area for those people who show up over there."